Layups: NBA 2K11 Ratings
Posted by Neil Paine on September 29, 2010
I'm admittedly a little behind the curve here, but I thought I'd throw some linkage to the player ratings for NBA 2K11 (which, as I was informed by a GameStop rep via phone-call several minutes ago, comes out midnight next Monday). Lots to disagree with there, so let me know in the comments what 2K's most egregious mistakes were... Also, for an alternate take, check out this blog where "Rashidi" offers his own (more reasonable) ratings. Happy gaming!
October 6th, 2010 at 10:23 pm
51. "Anyway, they were actually more on the right track with their former line of reasoning than the latter. Some people love using titles to rank players, but it's about as smart as ranking players by using the all-time scoring list."
Okaaaaaay, and how do I fit into this?
October 7th, 2010 at 12:57 am
And 50 too, gotta stop doing that.
October 7th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Don't even pretend that you're putting Kobe at #1 because of actual on-court production. Because it's not on par with some others in the league.
The only way Kobe fans even argue for Kobe is by using the TEAM accomplishment of a championship that was achieved by the Lakers (and not a single player). Which, once again, fans never always used to argue for Kobe in the first place.
October 7th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
53. This is what happens when you assume.
October 7th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
53. And before you even ask me what my argument is, let's take a look back and note how illogical your thought process is:
First, you take what is an opinion (X is or is not the best player), and state it as incontrovertible fact. Second, you proceed to attack me ad hominem, calling me a "worshipper" of Kobe because of my views. Third, I haven't expressed my criteria for best player, so you incorrectly ASSUME what it must be. Fourth, I can't take your opinions seriously because of the tone of your posts and your belief that the "evidence" is indisputable.
October 7th, 2010 at 6:33 pm
It IS a fact. What do people ultimately use to determine who the best players are? How much these players help their teams win when they are on the court. We can DIRECTLY determine this by pulling from multiple sources of information about their production.
If you're not interested in the hard evidence, then whatever you use to support your argument (and I don't have to assume here, I've heard it all before from Kobe fans) is based on either the flawed "rings criteria" or arbitrary, subjective opinion...such as the Lakers win because of Kobe's scowl. I mean, just LOOK at it! That makes him the obvious GOAT!!!
October 7th, 2010 at 9:07 pm
56. I have to assume you are slow now, or just deliberately obtuse. You keep referring to the "Kobe Fanbase". Who are these people? Am I their leader? When did I ever do any of the things you are attributing to the "Kobe Fanbase"? This is like you claiming that I believe in the the Easter Bunny because another guy who once said Kobe was the best also believed in the Easter Bunny. Your reading comprehension is rather poor, because I think you are attempting to argue against me by actually addressing other people's arguments. It's really odd, and makes me question your judgment and faculty of reasoning. Please if you ever have the time, go back and read my posts only, and then read yours, and (hopefully) you will see the things you are accusing me of have no basis either in any of my comments or in reality.
October 9th, 2010 at 11:24 am
"Your reading comprehension is rather poor, because I think you are attempting to argue against me by actually addressing other people's arguments."
I've seen every pro-Kobe argument in the book. Doesn't matter what you have to say about this.
Whatever your argument is, it isn't gonna be based on production. Because that doesn't favor Kobe.
October 12th, 2010 at 12:28 pm
As far as Minnesota being underrated. I find Wesley Johnson and jonny flynn to be incredible in this game
October 15th, 2010 at 1:08 am
58. You have a very poor grasp of logic.
October 18th, 2010 at 7:11 pm
Gil, if you can provide hard evidence for Kobe being the best player in the league that doesn't involve the usual subjective b.s. or use the flawed and ridiculous "ring argument" then I'm all ears.
If not though, your argument has no merit. This isn't the site to tell us how Kobe's scowl and "mythicall instinct" makes him the best player.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:06 pm
61. I don't have any "hard evidence". Here's the rub, which you don't grasp: neither do you. Unless you consider your winshare, your plus/minus, all of your individual "production" measures, to be hard evidence, all of which are softer than a block of cheese in the midday sun. Quantifying something into a number does not make it "hard", the quality of the data is what is at question. You can take piece of poop and mold it to look like a brick of gold, but it's still poopy. Individual statistics in basketball have a loooong way to go in terms of quality and expansion before you can start considering them valid. I have a math degree, which is does not make me any more of an expert than anyone else, I just point that out to explain that I am not afraid of statistics, and that I also know when it is valid to apply them.
October 21st, 2010 at 10:49 am
That's what people often say when the numbers don't agree with whatever preconceived notion they have in mind about a certain topic.
Gil, the numbers presented track the things that ACTUALLY TAKE PLACE ON THE COURT. You can complain about "lack of perfection" all you want, but it is EVIDENCE. Not only that, it is evidence complied from multiple sources that cover areas that other stats might miss. You gather all the data together and it gives you all the important and relevant information that you need about the player on the court, where the game is decided and wins are recorded.
It's your choice to discount the evidence, but I would rather have actual, objective data to work with than NO data and a subjective, unprovable opinion about the player of my liking. Caron Butler is my favorite player to watch. I would LOVE for him to top a list where he's better than Kobe Bryant and ever other player in the league, but - alas! - the data doesn't support my opinion.
October 21st, 2010 at 8:09 pm
63. You and Sarah Palin have much in common, including a lack of reason.
October 22nd, 2010 at 1:43 am
That's fine. Regardless of your lame insults, the objective evidence STILL says Kobe is not the best player in the league.
Thanks for playing.
October 23rd, 2010 at 8:52 pm
Carmello was the third leading scorer in the league last season (AHEAD OF KOBE) and carried the nuggets all season so how the heck is his rating to high? if anything it should be higher. Clearly you dont your players. but other than that i do disagree with the ratings the majority of the players got.
October 23rd, 2010 at 9:33 pm
65. That's what people who don't know what "objective evidence" is say to people who do understand what it is.
Nice try, thanks for participating.
October 25th, 2010 at 2:10 am
Why are you even here if you're such a numbers skeptic Gil? Are you already bored of the million Kobe fan sites that you probably should be visiting instead?
But if the um, EMPIRICALLY derived data doesn't satisfy your obvious bias, you can always make up your own stat that makes Kobe the best player in the league. Granted, it wouldn't have anything to do with figuring out how the game works on the court, but since it's all about making the evidence fit your theory instead of the other way around...
October 26th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
68. I'm not a numbers skeptic (as I mentioned before I have a math degree, so I'm not exactly opposed to numbers), I'm an individual players' numbers (and their application) skeptic. The team analysis is very valid - because it's clear what the objective of the team is, and it's very easy to measure - score more points that the opposing team. With individual players, it's not so clear, the numbers currently being used for analysis (including plus/minus) do not accurately reflect the contributions of each player. For example, a player does not score a point - it's a combination of the player and his team, and for every player and play that mix is different, the same goes for every box score statistic, rebounding, assists, everything.
If the empirically derived data for individual players is junk, you're going to get junk output.
Thanks for trying. Stick to science. Basketball stats are not as "hard" as you are making them out to be. Rebounds are not equivalent to an observation of velocity in physics. Counting assists is not like counting heads in a census survey. I believe in gravity. I don't believe the way that individual statistics are parsed gives any meaning in a team basketball sense. Has nothing to do with Kobe. Even if your view of the world (just data manipulation, almost numerology, which is objective with its set of rules to follow) said Kobe was the best, it still wouldn't be valid.
October 26th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
"I'm an individual players' numbers (and their application) skeptic."
Which makes you a numbers skeptic (and it is in this sense I meant in my post).
Obviously it is a team sport, but there are ways to attribute credit to individuals for what they do on the floor. Don't think you're the only one who has thought about the issues that you presented. But you treat it as a round peg in a square hole problem, which it is not - especially if you build your models based on observing how the game works on the floor.
February 13th, 2011 at 8:50 pm
UGH. major issue..
my game will not get past the first screen. i “press start” and it goes to “Checking HDD Space” and will not get past it. And i have a playstation three any help please
and it is also nba 2k11
February 13th, 2011 at 10:03 pm
Never happened to me, but my PS3 HDD is nowhere near full... This thread might help:
http://www.ihav.net/vb/games/my-game-keeps-glitching-checking-hdd-space-1433620.html
February 17th, 2011 at 7:04 pm
but how do i delete my games
February 18th, 2011 at 8:18 pm
i deleted some game but still not working
July 21st, 2011 at 11:29 pm
Is it just me, or are fast breaks horrible??? What Center, or any other player in the league do you know consistently catches up to Derrick Rose, Shannon Brown, or John Wall on a fast break? Yet whenever I play with these teams and my player breaks away all alone in the open court for what in real life is an easy dunk or lay up, it seems at least 2 of the opposing big men somehow get into position and squash the break! Why do runaway lead men on run towards the sidelines instead of straight toward the basket for the outlet pass for an easy dunk or lay up??? Why is dunking so hard? I hope NBA 2K12 fixes these issues...